How subjective can this be.... How to know if I love God or not?
If I don't love God, why do I go to a Church for? No better place
and things to do?
That's one of your problem.......you are not proving anything
from here. Just because you think a person goes to Church but does
not love God does not mean that he does not love God! Because it's
between him and God - why be kpo?
You also said those who felt God's love, their faith will lead
them to good works right?
How about those who have not ? Their faith will not lead them to
do anything? Is that what you are saying? Or need to change
something?
Then, will these people fit into those who Jesus said he will
reject - using the sower parables? Or is there something else? Or
need to combine a few parables?
Then, does that mean that Christians may not be saved?
If not, what happen to this group who go to Church but do not
love God when they die? God still save?
If yes, then love God or not has no bearing.
If no, then it means you confirm christians may not be
saved.....
And why they are not saved? Because they have yet to love God
which will allow their faith to lead them to good works (which in
your words happened only when one felt God's love)? Or am I
wrong?
Is the difference here not :
1. Go church love God - faith leading to good works - SAVED
2. Go church but no love God yet - faith did not lead to good
works - NOT SAVED
or maybe now, we need to add that their faith is not strong
enough?
Or what other things you are having in mind from your vast
experiences?
Or do I have to tell you what I think (based on my personal
preference) and someone else also tell you what they think (based
on their personal preference).......
Does it matter what you think, I think and he think ???? Or Does
what Jesus think is what that matters?
Hope this have answered your Go church bla bla
bla.....theory...once and for all and hope you understand why it is
not making your point valid at all.
Did I say you are wrong ? NO - just did not see how it help in
your cause. In fact, you helped to explain what I said - which is
why we felt you are confused!
LOL. It took me the whole day to calm down and stop being
pissed. It's interesting the way you answer questions with more
questions, and end it off with a sweeping statement about how Jesus
would think, but actually, you're pushing what you think as the
truth. it's no wonder i would be more "confused" as you put it.
If salvation is based on faith and works, and not faith alone,
why does the thief qualify for salvation?
And if the sinful woman, if she didn't come over to wash Jesus'
feet with her tears
and annoint Him, would she still be condemned?
What was Jesus thinking, when he allowed the thief into
paradise, if he said that works was part of the condition for
salvation, and not the result of salvation.
That's why i believe that good works come from the result of
salvation. and is not the precondition for salvation.
as for the parable of the sower - the message of the gospel is
refered to as the seed. and a person who has accepted the seed, and
if his heart is like the good soil, he will become fruitful, and
the gospel seeds will multiply. this parable to me seems to speak
about fruitfulness, and not about salvation, unlike what you are
suggesting.
the first heart, Jesus pointed out as the path, talks about
people who heard the message, but refused to believe. The rest of
the seeds were sown into soil, which speaks of believers.
so there, we are already told the seperation of believers and
non-believers, the saved and the unsaved.
Among the believers, there are 3 types. the rocky soil type, the
thorny soil type and the good soil type.
the rocky soil type, the seed grew up. as the gospel takes root.
and the person grows as a christian. but due to percercution, and
under extreme fire, he couldn't handle the pressure and falls away.
we call them backsliders, who knows, they may come back to God, but
at this point, the bible says they fell away, and i'll call them
unsaved, because they abandoned faith - which brings salvation.
the thorny soil type, the seed grew up, as the gospel takes
root, but the cares of the world choked it and it becomes
unfruitful. Jesus could have said it died, or something to remotely
suggest that it's hellbound. But he chose the word "unfruitful" I'd
like to stress, that He didn't use the seed to refer to us, but
rather the gospel message. the types of soil refers to us. I'll
parallel the phrase used.
Here's an example: The one who received the seed that fell on
rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with
joy
Anyway, as I was saying, the person who has the heart like a
thorny patch, receives the gospel, and becomes unfruitful. This
time, i don't mean to be offensive, i've taken the whole day to
pray abt it, and i seriously seriously feel bad about the
name-calling, and i'll explain why i got so upset, but one of the
reason why i'm seriously not impressed with catholics is because
most of them are like the thorny patch. they are unfruitful. in
front of their altar, they gamble, they smoke, they party like they
don't know the truth. and it's not just 1 of my friend's family.
almost all the catholics i know, are like that. nothing short of
being stumbling blocks. everyone complains about city harvest, but
so far, with my limited exposure to their christian lifestyle, they
are more pious. Sure, they don't like dull music, etc and
everything seems like it's related to fun, but they try not to do
things which will stumble the rest of the flock. even if they are
living in secret sin, they make it a secret, because they are
ashamed of it.
ok, moving along, now, lastly we have the good soil, where the
seed of the gospel message is received, and he grows big and
strong, and the gospel is spreaded along and he grows fruitful,
multiplying like crazy. See? The gospel is first received, the
believer is first saved, THEN he becomes fruitful, in terms of
works or multiplying in numbers.
Jesus didn't say he
rejected the soil (us). He just described what happens if
the gospel is received by different people with different heart. I
think it's wrong to use the parable of the sower to explain that
Jesus demands good works as part of the condition for salvation.
Because it's not what Jesus is talking about in the first
place.
Catholic DO and PRAY. And we DO MORE than you think and PRAY
MORE than you think....and I have already explained to you with
examples. Missions trips etc...are all good but why don't we also
start from where we are? easier right? Or do we have to "show" that
we do? NO NEED LAH....
Is that what the bible says? Or your own perspective?
Because I think the bible said something like, " Live such
good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing
wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify
God on the day he visits us." But since you say no need, I
guess this is irrelevant. Shrugs. After all, you're the wise
catholic who is concerned with what Jesus think, and I'm the one
bumbling around, lost and confused. I'll take your word for it.
Oh, just another thing, about bearing fruits. I think before you
think about bearing fruits, you should always go back to the heart
of salvation, because that's where it all began. Some people are so
determined to produce fruits, in fear of losing their salvation,
they are doing it the wrong way. In the end, they become empty and
dry and upset (just like chibet and myself in that church).